New Book Interview with Christopher Pepper
Talk To Your Boys: 16 Conversations to Help Teens and Tweens Grow into Confident, Caring Young Men
September continues with another author interview. Today I talked to Christopher Pepper about Talk To Your Boys, which he co-authored with Joanna Schroeder.
Christopher is a health educator in norther California, and I met him last spring while doing some research for Equimundo. I often talk about how we need to dramatically change the way we are raising boys and young men, which is why I am so excited that Christopher & Joanna have written a book to help with this conversation. I hope you enjoy this interview! And if you have a boy in your life – be sure to pick up your own copy. This one is really, really important.
[Kate] First of all, this book is amazing. I am so glad you and Joanna wrote it, and I hope it gets the attention that it deserves. As a facilitator myself, what I love most about it is that it is accessible and practical. No long paragraphs about complicated theory. There are some bulleted questions for self-reflection (so important) and others are conversation prompts for boys. The text boxes draw attention to key information (like "why we don't like the term toxic masculinity") and I think parents, teachers and caregivers are going to find this so useful. You clearly put a lot of thought into how you were going to package this material - so I'd love to know the thinking behind the design of this book.
[Christopher] Thank you so much! Joanna and I are both parents ourselves, and recognize how hard it can be for busy parents to get focused, uninterrupted time to read a book, so we structured Talk To Your Boys with that in mind. Each chapter focuses on a specific topic, like consent, racism, or substance use, and you can read them individually.
As far as the design, we wanted this book to feel approachable, practical, and useful. We went through several revisions with the design, and each time the different elements (quotes from boys, reflection questions, conversation prompts, etc.) grew a little more distinct in their design. We are both very happy with the look of the final book - both the cover and interior pages exceeded our expectations.
One hope I have is that the book’s design feels inviting to men. So much of the work of parenting and mentoring boys falls on women, and I think the world would benefit from having more men thoughtfully and reflectively engage with these efforts. That was an aim I kept in mind through the whole design process - I hope it worked!
[Kate] I have said many, many times that we have successfully altered the way that we are raising girls. We still have work to do! But we've made impressive strides in the past few decades. However, we have not made progress on how we raise our boys. So, I want to talk about motivation... How do we motivate others to want to change the way we raise boys? We have the data about depression & substance abuse and we know boys and men hurt when they are not allowed to be themselves - so maybe some people are motivated by "what to avoid." But I also like to talk about the positive. You've worked with thousands of boys during your career. What happens when we let boys be themselves? Give us the picture of what could be.
There has been a big shift in the social conversations about boys over the last decade. We’ve seen TV series like Adolescence break viewing records and books like Richard Reeves’ “Of Boys and Men” spend months on the bestseller list. Media like this has prompted a lot of people to recognize that many boys are struggling and this is a real issue our society should care about. As more people have recognized the problems boys and young men are facing, there’s been an increased hunger for ideas and solutions, and that’s where Talk To Your Boys comes in.
A lot of parents start from a position on anxiety or worry - they want to know how to keep their own son from becoming a school shooter or a sexual harasser. I like to encourage them to think about all the positives that can come from helping a boy learn to get along well with others, contribute equally to housework, and advocate for fairness and kindness. A boy that can master those traits is likely to have a happier, more socially connected life and become a important member of their community.
[Kate] I love your Chapter 4 - which is about dating and relationships. I heard a story recently - a young man told me about when he got his heart broken for the first time. He was in high school and his girlfriend (who he adored) broke up with him - not in a mean way, she just wanted to see other people. But he spiraled. He explained that his family was Catholic, so he hid the relationship from his parents for fear they'd be angry. His guy friends all told him to suck it up. He didn't have any other close female friends. He just didn't have anyone to talk to - and that loss was confusing for him, and stayed with him for a long time, shattered his confidence, and impacted everything - grades, friends, etc. Norms around boys and dating lead us to believe that boys can move on quickly without processing their feelings. But your chapter gives different advice. Why is it so important to talk to boys about love and relationships - even in the teenage years?
I think adults are often too dismissive of teen relationships in general. As grown people, with our years of life experience, we may be able to recognize that the pain of a first breakup is temporary and will fade with time. However, for teenagers living through those experiences for the first time it can HURT. When someone is in pain, and we dismiss their feelings as unimportant, it can really push them away. This seems to happen a lot to boys.
So many participants on our boys’ panel told us that no one ever talked to them about love or relationships. Sometimes they’d get a cursory sex talk, but it was often no more than “Have fun - don’t get anybody pregnant!”
Boys need much deeper and richer conversations about dating and love. Think about all the skills adult men need to have to start and maintain successful relationships. The teenage years are the time to start talking about and teaching those skills.
[Kate] You have another chapter on screen time and tech. First, I am convinced that we can't just say negative or disparaging things about online lives. The reality for Gen Alpha is that their lives are hybrid, and when we say things like "kids these days are online too much" they just roll their eyes and tune out everything else we say. But we also see all the data around what happens with too much screen time - and we know that there are dangerous algorithms that can pull our kids into dark places online if they go unchecked. So, what is realistic? How can we (kind of) monitor their online life so they don't get sucked into the manosphere?
A lot of people are concerned about games and social media because they worry about what boys might see online. I worry about that, too, but I also worry about all the in-person time they are replacing with solo time on screens. We’ve seen the amount of time that teenagers hang out in person plummet, and I worry that they will miss out on learning vital social and life skills.
I think the best solution is to be a strong advocate for youth doing in-person activities all the way into young adulthood, and to do whatever you can to support your boy’s interests and budding friendships. Spending an hour shuttling him back and forth to a friend’s house is probably more beneficial than spending an hour trying to block him from accessing electronic devices.
[Kate] I believe we need to raise boys differently because it is better for boys. But I also believe we need to raise boys differently because it is better for everyone. In my book, I have a chapter about "how to raise boys to be equal partners" because the making of a husband or partner doesn't start with I Do, it starts with childhood. One thing I write about is the importance of creating caregiving experiences for boys throughout their life. What are your thoughts - how can we prepare boys to someday do household cognitive and emotional labor? Do you have any golden advice?
I totally agree! So many adult men say things like “Oh, I just don’t notice the messes” or “I clean up as soon as my wife asks me.’ I think we have to start working on these things early. There is so much work that goes into running a home that is done mentally or done in the background. Bringing these layers forward and into full view may help, but I think it’s especially important for boys to practice doing things themselves.
A perfect example is planning and cooking a meal - it seems simple, but there are lots of unseen steps involved (choosing recipes, doing an inventory to see what you have and what you need, buying food, prepping ingredients, cooking, serving, etc.) There is a lot involved, but it’s something that many teenage boys could handle if we give them a chance.
[Kate] A lot of parents, myself included, are raising our boys differently. We encourage them to cry, wear what they want, play sports or don't play sports, follow their own path - and that works... up to a point. But the safety of the household only goes so far. How do we reconcile the "new way" of talking to boys - like your book suggests, and the larger social system that our sons are going to be forced to navigate?
Think of your home as a safe spot where everyone can put down their armor and really be themselves, where they can always come for love and support. That’s great. Then be honest about the world and talk with boys about how they can keep themselves and others safe while working to make the outside world more open and welcoming.
Congratulations to Adolescence for receiving SIX Emmy Awards Sunday night, including Outstanding Supporting Actor won by 15-year-old Owen Cooper.
If you didn’t watch Adolescence in the spring, but are curious to check in out now, here’s a link to my take on this series. I know it is a hard show to watch. But it is beautifully done, and elevates important issues facing boys in 2025.
This newsletter arrives (just about) every Wednesday afternoon. Or in this case, evening. This is in honor of my dad, who used to call Wednesdays “hump day.” He’d say - You’ve got the majority of the week behind you Katie.” So, when this hits your inbox - even if you don’t read it - think to yourself… congratulations! You made it over the hump, and you’re closing in on the weekend.
It’s a lovely read.
So many great points in this interview! Thanks, Kate & Christopher